Wednesday, February 13, 2008

"Anonymous Female Artist".Blog Thread... LOL

I'm sorry to ask, but: Why are his nuts minuscule, exactly?

3:20 AM

edna said...
You're right Chris, it takes giant nuts to make a comment like that. So smart, so fearless, so... retarded.

8:49 AM

christopherlee said...
I am just expressing an opinion I didn't say it was RIGHT. I am merely trying to account for statistics and trends. We live in an enlightened egalitarian society and we are motivated toward increasing representation of all kinds of people in different arenas that have not been so diversified. God,you people are so blinded some times..

12:06 PM

christopherlee said...
BTW I live in NYC so you are free to take your chances at kicking my A**. I don't think you would be successful though.

12:11 PM

Chris Rywalt said...
What I was trying to get at is, if Chris is such a bad guy for stereotyping women as not wanting to live in bad neighborhoods, then why is it okay to make comments about his testicle size?

It also sounds to me like he's talking about stereotyping of the "artist lifestyle" and how it might discourage full female participation.

A few weeks ago I was at a drawing session when I guess I assumed too much friendliness and said something that offended this woman. She punched me in the arm. Turns out she's a kickboxer. Oops.

Given that women want to be equals to men, does that mean it would've been okay for me to deck her?

So why is it, Edna, that women want to be considered equal to men except that they also want it to be okay to punch men or threaten their genitals on bitchy blogs?

12:19 PM

Chris Rywalt said...
Don't stoop, Chris. It looks bad.

12:19 PM

edna said...
Are you insane? You describe an artist's lifestyle as agreeable to one gender over another - this is an absolutely ridiculous assumption. First of all, neither the middle-class male OR female is "conditioned to" a life of poverty, drug abuse and alcohol. That is a myth constructed and perpetuated by stupid people. Plenty of women throughout history have lived so-called "artist's lives," while balancing real responsibilities, such as caring for aging parents and raising children.

If your statements on the other blog were just meant to remind us of the "reality" of the art world, you need your ass kicked for real. Do you really think you're providing the facts here?

12:22 PM

christopherlee said...
I'm trying to speak in broad generalities about TRENDS..OBVIOUSLY you can find particularities, but I at the outset wasn't trying to make ABSOLUTE PRONOUNCEMENTS or rules. I didn't MAKE IT the way it is, and the general spirit of our society it toward reform and inequality but again I was trying to make broad based observations about EXISTING CONDITIONS..BTW I also have very large testicles and P*nis.

12:29 PM

christopherlee said...
sorry "The general spirit of our society is toward reform of inequality.."

12:30 PM

edna said...
Duh, Chris. You know that ball busting is cross-gender punishment. Balls are guts. It's not my fault men coined the phrase in reference to their own genitalia first.

But if I hear "if women want to be considered equal to men, why is it OK for them to X, Y, or Z" one more fucking time, I swear I'll remove your man boobs with a dull machete.

WE ARE ALREADY EQUAL. Always have been. We have balls and you're a big pussy.

12:35 PM

christopherlee said...

12:41 PM

christopherlee said...
edna..why is being a "p*ssy" a put down..that's sexist, no?

12:43 PM

edna said...
Gosh, christopherlee, I really don't know where to start. Look back over your comment and think of the myriad ways you could have made your point about the dangers of generalities without being sexist, if that indeed your intention.

But forget all that! Now that I know you have a big penis I take back everything I said! Because we all know a big dick makes all the difference with the ladies.

I can't believe you said you had a big weiner as a "BTW." LOL! IMHO, you're still beyond retarded.

12:45 PM

edna said...
Oh for fuck's sake. If you had a big dick you'd type pussy without an asterisk.

12:48 PM

christopherlee said...
ok well I'm retarded and sexist..if Edna says it, it must be true. I better learn to live with that. Cheers.

12:54 PM

christopherlee said...
oh since we are on the subject of gender equality I would NEVER let a guy get away with threatening to kick my ass. you name the place, time sweetheart.

3:11 PM

Chris Rywalt said...
Chris is black, so you know he has a massive cock. I'm Polish, so I have a tiny weenie and a flat ass. However, I have ENORMOUS BALLS. Hairy, too.

As for my man boobs -- there you go being threatening again. Not nice. I'm rather attached to my man boobs. They give me comfort on those long, dark, lonely nights.

Anyway, Edna, I think you badly misread Chris' comments. You said he "describe[d] an artist's lifestyle as agreeable to one gender over another". I didn't read it that way at all. I read it as saying the stereotype of the artist lifestyle -- not the reality, but the myth -- isn't compatible with the preconceptions -- not the reality, but the myth -- of the bourgeois female lifestyle.

And it's not always that far-fetched. Pretty Lady frequently talks about living in bad neighborhoods and being mugged and beat up on a few occasions -- and how her family and friends were indeed sent into a frenzy of worry for her. Exactly as Chris describes.

The unfortunate reality -- as this wonderful exchange is demonstrating -- is that women are physically less powerful than men. Social equality of the sexes has come as physical power has become less important. Physical power is less important because of technology and because of the rule of law: It's illegal to beat people up, therefore when some 120-pound chick who thinks she's a badass because she kickboxes whacks me on the arm, my immediate reaction is not to use my superior power as a 300-pound male to pummel her into the dirt. It's to run to the nearest blog to whine about it.

But anywhere the rule of law is weaker, women face the problem of being physically overpowered by men. The rule of law tends to be weaker in bad neighborhoods. Bad neighborhoods have cheap rents. Therefore artists end up living in bad neighborhoods. Therefore female artists face being beat up by roving bands of unpleasant men. So maybe the women decide to become executive secretaries instead. Or get some kind of day job. Come on, Edna -- even you have a day job.

I happen to think that even bad neighborhoods are rarely as bad as people think. I also think the rule of law -- in America, anyway -- is stronger than most people think. So I don't think it's unsafe for females to become artists. But that's not what Chris is saying. He's saying that some people might perceive it that way, and that might discourage some women from becoming artists.

And, hey, it might. We can argue about that. But kicking Chris in the nuts, however satisfying that might be, isn't going to help.

I'm sorry if I'm being too reasonable.

4:23 PM

christopherlee said...
Thank you Chris. I am willing to make up if she is...

5:17 PM

edna said...
Executive secretaries?!! Who even uses that word anymore?! Are you sure you didn't mean stewardesses or professional sweater knitters? Your argument's so full of holes even your 300-pound ass would fall through it.

8:25 PM

christopherlee said...
That DOES IT!!! You angry lesbian, vagin a wearin', estrogen fountain, can't throw a baseball. pink an' violet lovin'.....FEMALE!!!! ;)_

11:09 PM

Anonymous said...
You are a 46 year old artist and we have never heard of you. It's pretty much over for you at this age dude. D.C. is pretty seedy but apparently La Vie De Boheme didn't exactly work out for you careerwise. I'm not interested in kicking your ass. I'm perfectly content just to make more money than you do.
a female artist who lives in a better neighborhood/city than you do with a mortgage paid for by actually selling art

1:35 AM

christopherlee said...
nicely played (anonymous) cupcake. I have to change my profile, I live in Brooklyn. I will see you around.

10:02 AM

Anonymous said...
The Old Folks Home? Alcoholics Anonymous? AARP meetings? Don't think so loser.

11:20 AM

christopherlee said...
swing out ( anonymous )sister.

11:57 AM

Anonymous said...
sober up loser

12:00 PM

christopherlee said...

12:03 PM

christopherlee said...
You are pretty angry. Did you get along with your father? Did you go to a public school?

12:07 PM

Anonymous said...
Chris you seem to know a lot about the mythic artist persona the art world needs and wants. Please call art galleries and ask them if they are interested in receiving unsolicited slides from an unrepresented 46 year old artist who doesn't come up on Google. Please mention that as a bohemian you drink heavily and abuse drugs. Please mention that you are African American ( because guess what you are just as screwed as the women you have no solidarity with). It should go really well and they will clear a seat for you at the Cedar Bar and supplement your Social Security payments with tons of art world cash. Wait, is the Cedar Bar still open ?

12:16 PM

Edna said...
Yo, let's get back to the topic... I'm interested to know whether the bohemian artist's lifestyle (as you describe it) really works for men either. Anon is right that if you've been an artist this whole time, and you're in your late-40s, that it may not be as foolproof as you say.

Your thoughts, chris?

12:17 PM

Edna said...
Looks like anon and I were thinking the same thing at the same time. It's a worthwhile question - how do you (chris) see yourself as an authority on any of this? And don't say you were just generalizing. You made some pretty specific statements about how women are culturally "set up" to fail as artists.

12:19 PM

christopherlee said...
If you could see thru your blind reactionary rage, you would see that I said NOTHING about "failure" or "quality". My statements have nothing to do with that. The "artworld" and cultural sphere since the 1980's has moved toward more representation of previously "underrepresented" types of people because the general spirit of modern civilization has been toward an aggressive spirit of reform.

12:45 PM

Edna said...
maybe "set up" is the wrong phrase... but more like "not equipped?"

12:46 PM

Edna said...
Huh? Don't previously underrepresented artists include minorities? Don't minorities typically live in tougher, more urban areas? How does this support your theory that women have trouble competing on a level equal to men because society instills fear and judgment about artists' living conditions?

12:50 PM

christopherlee said...
Women are NOT in any way "less equipped" to BE good or SUCCESSFUL artists. I was accounting for statistics by virtue of the structures for entry into the avant garde left bank artist "lifestyle" thruout most of the 20th century. Those material and political structures are changing resulting in increased representation.

12:51 PM

Anonymous said...
Reactionary... as in lame, classist cracks about public schools?
Where is the hardcore street cred you speak of I ask you? You know, living in a squat with your bohemian friends. Stealing electrical power from the Man. Rock Opera. Wait.... shit... that was the plot from Rent. It must have traveled to D.C. off-off- Broadway. Very inspiring.
Why are you hanging around dude? Don't you have galleries to call? They will be all over your badass, 12 step program, over the hill, bohemian vibe. Time is a'wasting. At this rate you will be nearly 50. Oh, mea culpa, you already are.

12:57 PM

Anonymous said...
Avant Garde. Left Bank. Yeah tell it. That's cool Cat. Very cool. Do you like jazz?

12:59 PM

Edna said...
So your argument the whole time has been that things are changing for women? Uh... sounds like you're backpedaling a little here.

The average woman can't maintain a studio in a seedy part of town without sending her family and friends into a frenzy... I'm just trying to make the point that some of the model elements of the art lifestyle "skew" toward the masculine "broad-ly" speaking ;)

"Skew" sounds like the present tense to me.

1:00 PM

christopherlee said...
Just "living in a bad neighorhood" doesn't give access to art world attn. The Williamsburg, Soho, East Village, Tribeca etc bohemias were mostly white middle class "adventurers" who lived in sub-standard living quarters but still brought their "products" to the monied classes that they were still tenuously connected to or sometimes blood relations with.

1:01 PM

Edna said...
I agree with Anon that your language is pretty silly... it really seems like you buy into all the retarded romantic myths about men & art & genius.

1:03 PM

Edna said...
Dude, you are contradicting your own fucking statements, every time! Just "living in a bad neighorhood" doesn't give access to art world attn No shit! You're the one who said it did!

1:04 PM

christopherlee said...
I said it was a NECESSITY, and a PART of the process in a certain period, as you couldn't afford an art studio on Fifth Avenue and 68th street. Now places like Tribeca, Soho and DUMBO are safe enuff to raise (white) children in.

1:07 PM

Edna said...
I think what happened here is that you thought you could make a really sexist statement on a blog based on no real facts and in an effort to sound erudite, then put a little "wink" at the end, and not be accountable for it.

1:09 PM

christopherlee said...
I think YOU see statements AUTOMATICALLY as sexist that aren't and you stop communication with your re-action. I think there are valid targets for your contempt and concern but I think that people like you have such a chip on your shoulder than like Don Quixote you look for fights all over the place.

1:11 PM

Edna said...
Because white kids need safer neighborhoods than other children? Um.. that's backhanded racism.

TriBeCa, SoHo, and DUMBO are completely unaffordable for artists unless they have trust funds.

Maybe you should live here for a while before you claim to be a real estate expert in addition to an authority on women's issues.

1:15 PM

Edna said...
Funny you should say that. I haven't even posted on this blog in months. I haven't reacted to any of the recent crap that people have posted and commented on related to women's issues. So lucky you!

1:17 PM

christopherlee said...
The "white kids" statement was a licentious gesture signifying "perception" as social reality. As far as being an "authority" on women's issues, since when does posting an OPINION on a blog require that someone thinks he's a authority on anything? You just don't want to cop to your addiction to resentment and antagonism.

1:21 PM

christopherlee said...
Incidentally "some of my best friends" happen to be successful women in the arts. Brenda Zlamany, Andrea Pollan, Cecily Brown, Lee Connor, Thelma Golden, Maureen Connor etc

1:28 PM

Edna said...
Don't you see that if you make a statement like the one about white kids, that you are a victim of the "social reality" you describe? Why would you choose to do that? Doesn't make sense. You always try to save face later by blaming society at large. Cute.

Your comment on Ed's blog was entirely antagonistic. I responded to it, and that's reactionary by definition. And your heated responses are also reactionary. So let's quit it with that little argument.

Are you at work? What's your day job?

1:30 PM

Edna said...
Name dropping. Nice. I'm sure those artists will love that you included them in the conversation, and that you put "some of my best friends" in quotes.

1:32 PM

christopherlee said...
because YOU are a reactionary person. Who else had such a harsh reaction? AND it's fun to argue. I admit it. The internet allows for candor and's fun and games.

1:33 PM

Anonymous said...
Chris you can't be this stupid. Your sense of entitlement blinds you to the fact that you are basically only sitting on a throne in the art world outhouse. You have vastly less access to the art world than the middle class women you find so amusing and despicable (who all went to Yale or Columbia and already have galleries). Maybe their public schools had better test prep than wherever you matriculated. Maybe they just had more ambition than you. Or less beer. You have less access than Don Quixote had to windmills or the imaginary bohemia you think still exists and insist on tilting at.
You are twenty years too old to get in to the art world. Ever. Pack up your kerosene heater, tent and marshmallows Dude. There is no reason for you to even bother camping out in Bushwick or East Williamsburg. You should be looking at further out Outer Boroughs like Kansas. That's the only place an unsuccessful artist your age can even get a crap adjunct teaching job. Click your red steel-toed work boots together and say "there's no place like Home".

1:34 PM

christopherlee said... are a phony coward.

1:40 PM

b said...
I'm sure this guy is greatly relieved to know you won't set foot in DC because it quote "sucks" so his nuts are safe. Phew

But tell me, how is life going for you gals who through life day by day spend and waste so much of your time searching for such things that you infer as bias and negativity so that you can be equally as negative about?

Sounds very 'progressive.'

1:43 PM

christopherlee said...
B..I live in NYC now,so she is welcome to take a crack at my nuts and write her will at the same time.

1:49 PM

Anonymous said...
You are an over the hill jackass Chris. You can use your real name because nobody has ever heard of you.

1:51 PM

christopherlee said...

1:52 PM

Check out this asshole comment on Ed Winkleman's recent post about gender bias in gallery exhibition schedules:

christopherlee said...
To have this kind of conversation you have to accept that we are talking in gross generalities and painting with a broad brush. Art making in general at the top is mostly a "male" (albeit effeminate male) adventure. It's a lifestyle that almost forgoes the stability and comfort that the middle class female in conditioned to, and dramaturgically speaking we want to see the romantic hero who wrestles with poverty , drug abuse and alcohol to create works of genius. The average woman can't maintain a studio in a seedy part of town without sending her family and friends into a frenzy...

And then, after a thoughtful response from Oriane, he responds:

I'm just trying to make the point that some of the model elements of the art lifestyle "skew" toward the masculine "broad-ly" speaking ;)

Good thing he lives in DC, a place I never set foot in because it sucks, because I would find him and kick him in his miniscule nuts so hard he'd never forget it.
posted by Edna at 11:46 PM on Feb 10, 2008

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